4.11.2017:
Dr. Deepak T Nair: (Soft spoken, smiling) Associate professor, Regional Centre for Biotechnology, Faridabad. SS Bhatnagar recipient. B.Sc in chemistry and M.Sc in biotechnology from University of Pune. Obtained PhD in structural immunology from National Institute of Immunology, Delhi in 2001. Worked as a postdoctoral fellow at Mount Sinai Medical Centre in New York, then joined National Centre for Biological Sciences, Bangalore as an independent investigator in 2007. Researches molecular pathways that correct DNA errors, and studies how organisms evolve and adapt to their environment, like how microbes adapt to antibiotics.
Dr. TVV starts (before profile) with how humans protect themselves from weather. Evolution is the hallmark of living organisms.
Structural biologist by profession; uses macromolecular crystallography. Dr. TVV compares DNA errors to spelling mistakes in book text. Molecules and molecular pathways exist that tend to correct DNA mutations - TVV compares this to proof checker. Studying molecular pathways that protect genomic integrity.
Evolution is a hallmark of organisms. To this, Dr. TVV adds the analogy of a physics textbook from 1850 being useless in modern times.. need to adapt and change, but the change should be correct (without spelling mistakes). When bacteria are under stress due to antibiotics, they adapt to stress (genomic plasticity) as some molecular pathways are triggered. Studying the molecular pathways involved in these adaptive changes is aspect this research. In this context, Dr. TVV says unity (stability) and diversity are needed! Studied a molecule in bacteria that increase the rate at which mutations occur.
Molecules of antibiotics chosen such that they work on proteins of bacterial cells, not those in human cells. Antibiotic resitance, antimicrobial resistance, which are becoming a major problem, occur as as result of pathogen developing mutations in response to antibiotic stress.
Reactive oxygen species (ROS) produced when using antibiotics was a matter of controversy. His group studied how these are produced and resolved the controversy by establishing that these ROS are produced within bacteria as a result of antibiotics and help kill the bacteria.
3rd major research work of on replicating the genome of flavivirus, a group of RNA viruses. RNA viruses responsible for many diseases like Japanese encephalitis, dengue, yellow fever, zika etc. Showed how a molecule called GTP activates replication of Japanese encephalitis genome. Generally little or no drugs available for these diseases. Dr. TVV: If you have a viral cold, go to a doctor - cold goes away in 1 week, don't go to a doctor, it goes away in a few days.
Larger aims of the study of how organisms adapt and develop drug resistance is to design molecules that will avoid such resistance from developing - i.e. drugs that will inhibit the evolutionary mechanism in viruses.
Got interested in science research as a result of a lot of reading (not just textbooks) during his school days - Reader's Digest, National Geographic (says it was difficult to get them in those days; would come in batches of 4-5 volumes due to delay). His brother had a big part to play as he would go to bookstores in Pune that offered discounts and purchase books. Some particular book (whose name he is unable to recollect) listed several major discoveries in medicine, like Joseph Lister's work. Such books developed in him a curiosity abut how things work. Scientists are driven by a need to know - they need to figure out what is unknown and tell the world how it happens.
Dr. TVV talks about current situation of school education in India where studying science has become a work of memorizing, very little in . Dr. Deepak says more importance needs to be given to practical experiments. Some private schools are doing good in this area.
Says science no longer works in silos. Traditional silos started disappearing in 1960s, so interdisciplinary work is not new. Macromolecular crystallography that he uses was technology develop physicists to study chemical structures which then became an important tool in chemistry. Many mathematicians are working in biological research to solve computational problems. People with undergraduate degrees in chemistry, physics or even mathematics come to research in biology.
Dr. TVV: Love-hate (like and fear) attitude towards genetic engineering. People want cure of diseases for which genetic engineering holds promise, but they are also view it with suspicion as they think of it as tinkering with nature. Dr. Deepak says that there are enough checks and balances, protocols in place to prevent misuse of genetic engineering and to ensure safety of techniques developed in the field. Public should gain knowledge of the technology before making a judgement.
11.11.2017:
Prof. Birendra Nath Mallick: Professor of neurobiology, School of life sciences, JNU. Born in Jamalpur, a small village in Bihar. B.Sc and M.Sc in physiology from Calcutta Univ. Ph.D from AIIMS. Joined School of life sciences, JNU, as an assistant professor in 1986. Since 2001, has been full professor of neurobiology. Served as Dean during 2013-2015. First researcher in India to do start research on REM sleep in India. Recipient of several awards like SS Bhatnagar in 2001. Published more than 130 research papers and book chapters.
Dr. TVV gives a humorous introduction. "I am absolutely sure all through this programme, you are going to be wide awake. But this programme is about sleep".
Parts of sleep - historically too people knew that there is wakefulness . Only in 1950s that it was found that REM sleep was identified - paradoxical because eye movement happens rapidly whereas other muscles are relaxed. Till recently it was thought that dreams come only during REM sleep but it is now known for sure that dream may occur during non-REM (slow wave) sleep too, though REM-time dream is more common and more likely to be remembered; dream during non-REM is not remembered. There is a component of remembrance to sleep but why and how of it is not understood. There is one school of thought, including his, that REM sleep and dreams are 2 [different] phenomena and just happen to overlap (by coincidence??) often, but not always. Dreams occur in between REM sleep. REM sleep can happen w/o dreams. The reason for why they overlap sometimes and not always is also something yet to be found. Many organisms don't have a dreaming brain during sleep. Sleep can also be monocylic and multi-cyclic; polycyclic means sleeping multiple times in a day.
Dr. TVV: Do all animals sleep? Do fish sleep? Prof.: Is not aware, to the best of his knowledge, of any living system (animals?) that do not have a sleep-wake cycle. Fundamental cycle/wave called Basic Rest Activity Cycle - sleep is supposed to be an evolution of BRAC. Whales do sleep as show by classic work of Jerry Siegel showed that among whales, immediately after birth, mother and pups do not sleep for almost a month, but "most likely" (yet to be established conclucsively) they have a hemispheric sleep, i.e. a part of the brain sleep (most likely, same happens in dolphins and birds). Albatross fly for non-stop for thousands of miles - do they not sleep? Recent work, paper published in Nature Communication in 2014 or 2016, by a professor from Avian Research institute of Max Planck shows that they go through hemispheric sleep, and even have a period of complete sleep (both halves of brain in sleep), possibly even go through a sort of auto-mode sleep phase. Such auto-mode may pose some risk to bird, but the bird may have adapted to this through evolution.
Sleep is an instinctive phenomenon. If sleep is disturbed, most functions of body will be affected, but quantum and ?? may vary. So far, no disorder has been found which does NOT cause sleep disturbance, and vice-versa. So sleep cannot be a vestigial phenomenon. Is it right to think that there is just aspect to sleep's effects, like a nodal point, one point of failure? Or is sleep's effect modular, so that sleep feeds into various mechanisms to various degrees, so that even if sleep is disturbed, various body mechanisms continue to function but with some loss and only in case of chronic sleep disorder, things go haywire. It won't be right to think that nature has created something like heart such that if it fails, everything fails. More likely it may be modular, like computer h/w, where some components may function even if other components fail, except if there is power loss.
Understands neural mechanisms of REM sleep regulation and function of REM sleep. REM sleep is the phase where humans spend least time in their life andd also day-to-day. Function of REM sleep - since it is so fundamental, can it affect a fundamental principle of brain function? He proposed that the fundamental difference of REM neuron as compared to other cells is their excitability and hence if their excitability changes, they can affect other functions. Showed in 1993 that REM sleep loss affects sodium potassium ATPase enzyme (which is the main factor in maintaining excitability) and thereby affects neurons; since then his lab has gone through how the entire process happens, from biochemical process to gene level; still continuing this research study.
Neuro-mechanical research work on REM sleep. Based on reasoning similar to "if a car's motor is affected, car's functioning is affected, not vice-versa". If function is lost, then a mechanistic loss should be taking place (regulatory mechanism should have been affected), as per his hypothesis. GABAergic interneurons are inhibitory neurons. There are non-adrenergic neurons that generally go off during REM sleep, but in many REM sleep disorders, these neurons don't go off, causing ATPase levels to go up and disrupting other functions. His GABAergic neuron model shows a biological lever-like mechanism (says he has been fascinated with the physics of steam engine's piston-wheel, since 8th or 9th grade and wanted to find a similar mechanism in biology).
Dr. TVV: Wouldn't people have laughed at you when you decided to do research on sleep? Reply: (Laughingly) Don't know if people laughed at me, but this was an interesting topic to study. From childhood, was fascinated about understanding human body. Govt. job was never appealing to him from the beginning, always wanted to understand the human body and mind.
An inspiring story involving his research. Around 2010, one Dr. Frank, a paediatrician, from Germany wrote to him about a young patient with a rare genetic sleep disorder - patient was sweating abnormally even in ambient temperature (18 to 19 degree Celsius) and also during sleep, the blood non-adrenaline level was higher than normal by 4 times. Frank contacted Prof. Mallick since his research work seemed to have some relation to that disorder. Prof. Mallick was afraid to give advice as he was a researcher in basic sciences and did not have experertise in clinical treatment. After 4-5 days time, he gave his opinion on the "most likely" mechanism behind the disorder and based on that what type of drug would help (alpha 2 antagonist?), but with a note of caution that this was only a hypothesis and he wasn't absolutely sure, so don't blame me if anything goes wrong! It turned out that the group of doctors had already started treating the patient a month ago based on the same hypothesis and they were seeing improvement in the patient's condition, strengthening their confidence in Prof. Mallick's earlier research work and they had contacted him to get more details about the research outcome. In October 2017, Dr. Frank said that he is continuing to treat patients with same drugs as suggested by Prof. Mallick's hypothesis.
Don't sleep when you want be active and don't be active when you should be sleeping. Should be "actively sleeping" (sleep is an active process); sleep needs due credit. Prof. Mallick quotes an interesting adage note he had written about sleep in an editorial - "Never sleep on sleep, don't lose sleep on lost sleep. Why sleep when sleepy lest sleep becomes sleepier".
Amount of sleep required varies from person to person. There is a component of habit to it. People should not worry much if sleep if disturbed once or twice, but should consult a specialist if the disturbance continues beyond few days. Roughly 4.5 hours to 9 hours of sleep.
18.11.2017:
Dr. Anil Kaul: Director of the Institute of Microbial Technology (constituent unit of CSIR), Chandigarh. Over 16 years of experience in pharmaceutical drug discovery, research and clinical development. Hailing from Kashmir, obtained post-graduation in sciences from Delhi Univ; PhD in 2001 from Max Planck Institute. In 2004, joined a pharmaceutical company (Jannsen) in Belgium and worked as senior director heading the pulmonary infection discovery unit. Came into limelight when, as a co-scientist, he disovered and development a novel drug for multi-drug resistant TB drug (Sirturo, bedaquiline). It is approved in about 30 countries (including US, China, EU, SA, India). First drug to be approved in over 45 years for (drug-resistant) TB. WHO added it to the list of essential medicines in 2014. Over 35 publications in leading journals like Nature and Science, over 30 patents and 40 international presentations. Recipient of awards like Swiss TB prize in 2005.
About 35 million children suffer from a dangerous virus, RSV - respiratory syncytial virus; affects mainly kids and elderly. Most kids get affected by it in the 1st year but in most cases it is self-resolving, but since there is no vaccine or drug to treat it, so in cases where kid's infection does not self-resolve, it is difficult to treat. Clinical trials being carried out for a new drug for RSV. Phase 1 trial completed by Johnson & Johnson and results look excellent from safety perspective. Efficacy data being awaited.
Started research career in 1996, as a student in Delhi. Started with research on TB (Dr. TVV calls it an "orphan disease" as it is mostly a poor people's disease and it has been neglected). In India, 3 million affected in India and globally 1.8-2 million die of TB every year. Over 100 years have elapsed since TB bacteria was discovered by Robert Koch, so it is a shame that TB continues to be such a major problem. Existing drugs for TB are mostly for drug-susceptible TB, i.e. normal TB, chances of cure 95% and usually cured in 6-9 months, but side-effects exist. Now the global threat is drug-resistant (MDR and XDR varieties) TB, not normal TB, and existing drugs cannot treat it. Bedaquiline, a new molecule, discovered and developed in Johnson & Johnson, has been a game changer.
Is it bedaquiline affordable? TB costs India 25 billion dollars annually and affordability is a key factor. Johnson & Johnson has kept affordability in mind, and this drug is now given free of cost in India.
Also working in influenza virus. Swine flu, bird flu are all a major threat globally - existing vaccines and drugs not effective enough. Need for a new drug that can be used in a therapeutic setting for any kind of flu. Drug is in the experimental stage now, trials being carried out by Johnson & Johnson.
Dr. TVV asks how Dr. Anil Kaul managed to become a researcher despite growing up in a tough time in Kashmir. Circumstances teach you how to perform and excel in one of the worst situations - not just he, but entire community had to deal with the situation. The more the stress, the better the performance. Don't give up, keep the faith and instinct, work towards those (goals) and things will fall in place.
Just a month since he became the director. CSIR-IMTECH established in 1984. When he got the option to see and lead IMTECH, he had no idea about it, how good or bad it is. Now feels it is an amazingly unique institution, hybrid between basic and translational science, product-oriented research encouraged by government policy on R&D, has cutting-edge advantage. Over the last 30 years, IMTECH has developed several important technologies. One of them is streptokinase (natural and recombinant) - 14 millions Indian get heart attack annually, 2 die of heart attack per minute in India, similar to mortality rate for TB in India. Different versions of streptokinase have been developed by IMTECH and the technology, licensed to Cadilla and then to other companies, this has brought down the price by 35%. In terms of application of streptokinase, IMTECH has had its glory and success. Socio-economic impact of this particular technology alone is Rs. 20000 crores. Another contribution of IMTECH - it is nation's microbial bank. Name any microbe, IMTECH safeguards India's bio-diversity in terms of microbes, both pathogens and non-pathogens, over 30000 strains. India's first international depository and authority - MTCC supplies over 1 lakh microbial cultures to India annually.
What is the roadmap of IMTECH? Has fantastic bioinformatic capabilities, has over one million hits on its database/data-servers from across world per month, it is a huge data source to global scientific community to be used for free. Using this plartform to go into big data analytics going to solve major health care challenges.
Recently signed India's major partnership agreement with Johnson & Johnson for a new drug for MDR TB. MDR-TB patients need 10-12 pills per day, wants to reduce this to 1 pill per day, new era of PPP in India, this will be a game changer.
25.11.2017:
Prof. Ravi Mehrotra: Director, National Institute for Canc. Prevention & Research, Noida, a constitutent unit of ICMR. 13 lak cases in India per year, but 60% of them are preventable or curable if detected early. Heads WHO FCTC, Global hub on smokeless tobacco. Believes in early diagnostic techniques in prevention, and in tobacco control. Over 2 decades of expertise in epidemiology and early diagnosis. Medical training at a prestigious medical college in Pune, followed by M.D. and D.Phil from Univ. of Allahabad, fellowship of Royal College of Pathologists. Made contributions to affordable technology for diagnostic, and his research emphasised need for routine screening and early diagnosis of vulnerable people. Several awards like Ernest Fernandes award (for psychologists??).
80:20 rule. In developing countries, 80% of patients come in 3rd and 4th stages, difficult to treat them even with best of treatment (only 20% chance of saving them). But in Western countries and in some parts of Asia with better awareness and diagnostic facilities, 80% patients come early. But there are certain types, fortunately rare, that cannot be treated at all. In India, 60% of incidences are preventable. Atleast 40% of cases in India are due to tobacco. Another 20% can be prevented if appropriate as far as infections are concerned and if obesity if avoided. Thus tobacco, infections and obesity are the most preventable causes. Unfortunately, when a patient is diagnosed with canc. 50% of their blood dries up due to fear psychosis. While it is true, unfortunately, that there is no good treatment for certain types of tumours, like those of brain, gall bladder, pancreas, and lungs, but for many other types, good treatments are available.
Only 5% to 10% of canc's run in families, e.g. breast canc. Cites the example of one famous A. Jolie whose had family history of breast tumour and she tested positive for a marker and had tissue removed for prevention. In India, 26% of canc. in women is breast canc., the highest percentage, followed by 21% for cervical. Fortunately, both are curable if diagnosed and treated early and there are many patients who are hale and healthy after treatment.
Dr. TVV: What is smokeless tobacco? Dr. Ravi: Good success in controlling smoking. Rare to see people smoking in cinema hall or restaurants now. But unfortunately, about half of tobacco consumption in India is form of chewing tobacco - ghutka, khaini, zarda are available openly despite bans and restrictions. Even with warning labels, addicts ("victims" really) of tobacco don't even look at the warning label. 90% of all smokeless tobacco in world are sold and consumed in Sout Asia, 80% in India and Bangladesh alone. International Hub for Knowledge on Smokeless Tobacco initiated in 2016 (under FCTC, Framework Convention on Tobacco Control) and NICP chosen chosen to host that hub. Hub provides information on varieties of smokeless tobacco and on control policies.
Active ingredient in tobacco, nicotine, by itself doesn't causes other diseases. But lot of other additives, like tobacco-specific nitrosamines and tar content cause canc. Tar mainly in smoking tobacco but in smokeless several other carcinogenic additives are present. E.g. areca nut (or betel nut) is a known carcinogen. Of over 300 additives, over 60 are known carcinogens. These not only causes mutations in cells or DNA but also inhibits or negatively affects repair mechanisms, so mutation occurs, no repair occurs. Tobacco causes canc. in 13 organs, oral cavity, lungs, pancreas etc. Tobacco also causes other diseases, co-morbidities like COPD, so double trouble in diabetics.
Cerv. canc. cause, HPV infection, discovered 25 years ago and vaccine developed 10 years ago. 2 states, Punjab and Delhi, started vaccination programme in 2016 for vaccinating young women to prevent cervical canc. Just 2 doses needed for this vaccine if initiated at the right time.
Dr. TVV: In Japan, a national programme for screening gastric canc. was started and this led to a survival rate of 95%. Dr. Ravi: A special type of tube for gastric endoscopy was invented in Japan and they catch patients at a very very early stage, and this effort is stupendous. In India, most common types are oral, cervical and breast. In August 2016, a framework for control and screening of canc. was released by India's Minister of Health. NPCTS - screening included, clubbed with other non-communicable diseases like diabetes, cardiovascular, stroke. Protocol to be in place by 2018, training underway and will be started in 180 districts and then expanded after learnings.
3-pronged effort needed to tackle canc. Prevention - cancerindia.org.in tells all information, contact details of nearest treatment centres and location using Google maps, has quizzes to assess risk profile, what sources of funding (PM, CM, governor, govt. etc.) are available. The portal has got tremendous response.
2nd, need better diagnostic facilities. Unfortunately, diagnostic facilities are expensive but government is now putting more money in this and regional centres have better facilities now.
3rd but not least, need better treatment facilities. Need more radiotherapists and machines (it is just one-third of what is needed for India's population), trained medical oncologists, surgical oncologists. North east has the highest incidence of this canc. in India, but the number of treatment centres is insuffient there, so many patients need to come to Delhi. There is now a lot of push for infrastructure development and human resource development in north east to tackle the problem.
Dr. TVV: What do you say about taboo about India, what is your advice? Dr. Ravi: Fortunately, in India, unlike in the West, most patients are accompanied by families and mostly taken care of by the family. Families need to know it is not infectious and be aware of various ways of funding available for treatment - need not worry about drain on resources, need not sell their property to treat the patient. Most critical thing is to have compassion. If the patient can be cured, please treat. If cannot be cured, ensure patient gets as painless, as comfortable a quality of life as possible.
2.12.2017:
Dr. U. Mahabalirajan: Senior scientist, Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology, constituent unit of CSIR in Delhi. Has done research on respiratory problems like asthma. A medico turned researcher, he received MBBS degree from MGR medical univ, TN, and PhD from department of medicine, AIIMS. Has the distinction of identifying the role of mitochondria in asthma. Used animal models to discover small molecules that restore (??) mitochondrial dysfunction in asthma. His research team works to identify NSAID to treat asthma. Young scientist award in 2011 for his work on the role of mitochondria in asthma.
Mitochondria - considered just a powerhouse of cells. Identified that in some cases of asthma, there are dysfunctional mitochondria in epithelial lining. Got a clue of such dysfunctional mitochondria from observation on human patients and established this through mice model. In blood cells of asthma patients, such dysfunctional mitochondria was found, and in mice model, similar dysfunctional mitochondria was found in epithelial cells, i.e. in the location of the problem. Asthma is usually NOT a pollution-induced disease - there is a genetic component involved; only if there is the genetic dysfunction, the pollution induces breathing problem. SUch asthma is controllable but not curable. There is also an occupation-induced asthma (non-genetic), where pollution is the direct cause of the problem and if pollution disappears, breathing problem also disappears (i.e. it is "temporary asthma").
His lab works on finding ways to turn the dysfunctional mitochondria into superfunctional mitochondria. Stem cells used - these cells donate mitochondria to epithelia and restore them to normal functioning. This is not genetic correction, but is organelle correction, i.e. replacing dysfunctional mitochondria with fresh mitochondria (analogy of replacing inefficient workers with efficient workers in a workplace). This research is half-way, clinical studies to be started in collaboration with AIIMS.
Says he felt inferior when he shifted from medical practice to science (research) as he felt he knew nothing about research. Receiving the Young scientist award gave him the much-needed confidence.
Dr. TVV: 10% of world population affected by asthma, but in India only 3% is affected. Surprising since India is the capital in several other diseases and disorders - TB, poverty, hunger etc. Why? Reply: Immunology to explain this. 2 arms of immune response - one is cytotoxic (this is only for viral diseases) and other is helper arm. Helper arm has 2 subarms - Th1 (important for infectious diseases TB etc.), Th2 (for asthma, allergens, worm infestation etc.). In countries like U.S., people go to doctor immediately on getting mild cough or fever and are given medicines soon, so infection is cured too soon for Th1 to be developed, so Th1-Th2 balance is changed (analogy of weighing balance). In India, due to crowding, population, poverty etc., children playing in muddy places, people exposed to mild infections more often, so Th1 level is higher, leading to lower Th2 response (to maintain balance). This is hygiene hypothesis; this is the most widely accepted hypothesis, though in recent times, there have been alternate hypotheses.
Dr. TVV: 3 common myths/opinions about asthma in India - fish medicine as cure, asthma being contagious, not being curable. On fish medicine - cannot comment much on this as he has not seen this, but based on what he has heard from other doctors, there are people who have taken fish medicine developing severe asthma - so he thinks fish medicine may help cure temporary/occupation-induced asthma but not genetic asthma, probably only temporary relief for genetic asthma. Asthma is not contagious. Narrates an incident where he had to collect blood samples from asthma patients in villages - a family member asked in hushed voice if her relative's asthma would spread to her and others. Till now, no cure for asthma, but controllable - even with gene editing, cure for asthma is difficult as hundreds of genes are involved.
Smog in Delhi, pollution in India. Pollution causes both acute and chronic diseases. As scientists, we need to identify which particles in PM2.5 (NO2 etc.) cause lung damage. Since pollution cannot be completely avoided, scientists need to find if we can build a "firewall", increasing the threshold bar, i.e. making immune system capable of fighting against higher level of pollution - by identifying pathways involved in lung damage, can we identify traditional medicines that down-regulate those pathways and thereby make immune system work stronger. Broccoli has huge amounts of antioxidants, may help boost immune system, though in many cases, cooking may cause loss of these nutrients.
Rising problem of COPD. Usage of firewood for cooking. Worldwide, COPD comes predominantly due to cigarette smoke, and women less prone to COPD. In India and China, povery higher, wood or dung used widely for cooking, smoke exposure more to women, so more women get COPD. Cigarette smoke different from wood smoke.
Small village near Rajapalayam, studied in Tamil medium school (South Indian Nadar Higher Secondary school). School had dedicated teachers and they showed him a taste of science. His biology teacher was an inspiration (1995 batch - 12th standard) - teacher would take them to garden to explain botanical concepts, made them understand, not just "mug up". Key points summarized by TVV: willpower will help overcome poverty, educational system needs to change to develop curious students, make them think rationally, with spirit of science.
9.12.2017:
Dr. Vinay Gupta: Senior scientist, Advanced Materials and Devices division, constituent unit of CSIR. Research interests include organic solar cells, energy storage and grapheme. Obtained M.Sc in 1992 and Ph.D (1997) from Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati (MDS) University, Ajmer. Worked in fellowships and visiting positions at prestigious institutes in U.S., Germany, Japan. Over 85 publications, 5 chapters and 1 patent. Very recent recipient for S.S.Bhatnagar award - 2017; Thomson Reuters Research excellence citation award, 2015.
What are "organic" photovoltaic cells? Offer more options than silicon-based photovoltaic cells. Discovered by Allan Yeager, for which he received Nobel prize. Advantages - flexibility (can be carried in pocket, bag), come in various colours (smart shirts, dresses - cloth can be used to generate power), can be used in coloured windows to harvest solar power. Silicon has no colour; organic chemicals in photovoltaic cells come in colours.
Joined photovoltaic group in 2010. Initial work was in improving the efficiency of photovoltaic solar cells (was 5% compared to 15% for silicon-based photovoltaic cells). Tandem solar cells (stacking multiple layers) used to improve efficiency, different layers capturing different spectrum ranges of light. Single polymer captures only a single narrow band. Problem with tandem cells - junctions between layers break frequently, costly to produce. Dr. Vinay Gupta came up with the idea of mixing mutliple polymers into a single layer, instead of multi-junction cells, and achieved same efficiency. Dr. TVV: What is the challenge with mixing two polymers - anyone could have done it? Reply: Contention between polymers for electrodes - they compete, not compatible usually. Was lucky to have found 2 compatible polymers - they interact, transferring energy between themselves and working more efficiently than when used separately. Now working on improving its efficiency beyond 15%.
Doctoral research in France. According to Dr. TVV, unlike usual doctoral works which involve only minor improvements, he (Dr.Vinay) achieved the stunning feat of solving a long standing challenging problem of mixing carbon fibre with fluorine.
Dr. Vinay: While doing master course, his father, a teacher, wanted Vinay to become a lecturer. One Prof. Ramkumar asked if he wanted to apply for a PhD opening in NPL. Vinay Gupta was hesitant as his perception of PhD was of something exotic and tough. On persuasion, joined NPL and soon after went to France on advice of his guide. Carbon-flurine compounds - applications like in lubricants, reinforcing cements, in tracks. Carbon fibres are disordered and getting fluorine into them was difficult - the French research lab was trying to solve this for 2 years and thought somebody from India will come to help them.Went to France as a novice in PhD and tried something unconventional. Tried increasing the pressure of fluorine beyond 1 bar (which is dangerous, might damage the fibre too) to 10 bar and put some lubricant like HF. Next day, found that it had produced C2F. His professor was very angry and thought Vinay had made a mistake in measurement and that it was not C2F; sent the sample for analysis and didn't talk to him for 2 weeks. Result indicated it was indeed the fibre that Vinay claimed and his professor was very happy, the result was something he had never before. The incident gave him the confidence that he could be a scientist - decided that he would pursue research work, not teaching. Following such impressive results, got post-doctorate offer from institute in Japan even while he was still doing PhD. In Japan, his task was related to lithium batteries - to etch the surface of graphite using fluorine to create opening for insertion of lithium. His expertise in fluorine chemistry was sought after - not many had experience in that niche field then.
After post-doctorate, joined a fellowship programme in Germany to work on carbon nanotubes since it was popular then. Carbon nanotubes - take a layer of graphite and roll them up to get carbon nanotubes. Studied their formation process. Two carbon electrodes placed together in an environment like helium and a high current is passed. Dr. TVV: similar to carbon arc lamps used in cinemas in olden days. By 1991, scientists had found that by increasing the pressure, longer carbon nanotubes could be produced, but the underlying process was not found. The Nobel laureates had only found the structures (bucky balls, fullerene, nanotubes), not the explanation of the process by this they are formed. Dr. Vinay worked for 1.5 years to understand the process. Inspired by the soap bubble toy that he played with during childhood days, found an explanation for the correlation between pressure and formation of nanotubes. Soap bubble toy - when blown with medium pressure, it forms a spherical bubble, but with higher pressure, it forms an elongated, tube-like structure. Created a theoretical model based on Young lambda surface tension law - explains why depending on pressure, same carbon produces either bucky balls or nanotubes.
Challenges with organic photovoltaic cells. Stability - silicon cell can last for upto 25 years, but organic photovoltaic lasts for only 5 years. Second challenge is cost effectiveness.
India has not yet made much headway in solar energy. India still depending a lot on conventional energy sources because they are easily available. But Western countries are already thinking 50 years ahead; India should not wait for problem to arise before attempting to solve it. India faces the problem of limited land space - silicon solar cells need a lot of open space - competing uses - land for cultivation or energy production.
Working with young children to promote scientific talent. India has 2 kinds of talents - gifted people like Ramanujan (he couldn't have cleared IIT exams), but they don't get to the top due to the rigid educational system. Goverment of India has started a cluster innovation centre to identify gifted children in India, give them training to make them go into science research rather than enginering or medical profession. This programme is a brainchild of Dr. Chidambaram, National Scientific Advisor. These children will be given incentives, fellowships.
Message to young people: Passion is the key to success. Identify your talent. They should decide and focus on what they want to achieve in life, not because what their parents want them to become something.
16.12.2017:
Dr. Rajendra Singh Paroda: Founder chairperson of Trust for Advancement Agriculture Sciences that is dedicated to linking science with society. Recipient of Padma Bhushan (1998) and Norman Borlaug award (2006). A versatile personality, visionary, and architect of several research institutions. Born August 28, 1942 at Ajmer. Obtained his PhD in 1968 from Indian Agricultural Rsearch Institute, Delhi. Mentored by the eminent Research contributions in the field of plant breeding and genetic resource management; 10 improved crop varieties nationwide. 1994-2001 - director general, ICAR and secretary of Dept. of Agricultural Research and Education, spearheaded and modernized national agricultural research - over 30 new institutions created in various field of agriculture. Main architect National Gene Bank, New Delhi - the 2nd largest in the world today. Has over 250 publications and has authored 10 books.
Dr. TVV: .
10 new crop varieties - forage crops, some of them unique for multi-cut purpose, increased productivity, not required to plant seed everytime, including sorghum and oats. Why is productivity of forage crops important? Animal sector contributes to about 40% of India's GDP and 60% of expenses there is from food/fodder for animals/birds - reduce input cost for farmers. Desirability Criteria for high-productivity forage crops: fast growing, more biomass, more frequent cuts possible, better digestibility. Creating such crops is a multi-disciplinary effort - need to feed the animals with the plants and test the growth of animals - involves animal nutritionists, agronomist, biotechnologist, breeders.
Post-doctorate in UK. When Dr. Singh was planning to return to India, his guide in UK asked him: many researchers from India have come to UK and gone back, but never heard back from them - don't know how they are performing - why is it so? Is it due to lack of research facilities in India? Dr. Singh took it as a challenge to create a good research facilities in India - won the first ICAR team award. Joined National Bureau of Plant Genetic resources. Established gene bank in India with 25 million dollar funding (from whom?) in 1986-87.
Good gene variability needed to create improved plants. Gene bank is a foundation and a library. Needed to help create crops to meet new challenges and needs like developing drough-resistant varieties. Subsequently, gene banks were created for animals, fish, microbes and insects (both pests and useful). This is important for sustainability.
Dr. TVV: There was a time when agriculture scenario in India was in such a sorry state that Indian people were viewed as leading a ship-to-lip existence (waiting for ship bringing imported food grains and food to be unloaded). Dr. Singh: That was a reality. India was importing 10 million tonnes of foodgrains and even this had to be bought with loan under PL-418. Loan was being repaid till 1995. Some predicted that India would succumb to population pressure as it would not be able to feed its people, thereby not be able to repay loan and not be able to import foodgrains anymore. Recollects the incident when in 1960s, sometime after the seeds of Green Revolution were sown, PM Indira Gandhi, after returning from a visit to the US (to request foodgrains for import to India, a request which was denied by the US), told agriculture scientists to anything but not make leaders having to go abroad again begging for food. From being in a begging bowl, India has become not just self-sufficient but also developed self-pride in agriculture. Also recollects President K.R.Narayanan's address in the Central Hall of Parliament on the occassion of 50th anniversary of Indian Independence, where the president said that the 2 most important achievements in those 50 years were India becoming self-sufficient in food and the doubling of its life expectancy (from 32 to 64) - Dr. Singh says that the increase in life expectancy is linked to increased food productivity.
Dr. TVV: Green Revolution is being criticized for bringing in problems like use of harmful pesticides, increased dependence of chemical fertilizers and even increased incidence of some dangerous diseases. As a person who has been a part of this revolution, what is your response to this criticism? Dr. Singh: Had green and white revolution not taken place, people won't be confident to criticize anything! India is still struggling with population growth - despite drop in population growth rate from 2.8% to 1.2%, its large population base is so huge that it continues to add 1 Australia (15-16 million) to its population every year! Norman Borlaug said that without the new varieties of wheat, India would have needed 3 times the amount of available cultivable land to produce the amount of wheat is produces today. Today the problem is not just food security but also nutrition security, poverty is still around 20%, socio-economic problems relating to access to food, highest number of malnourished children. Need to diversify food basket. Green revolution is being blamed because we went in for approaches which possibly would have not been right, led to over-exploitation of natural resources like water (rice-wheat system of production that needed more water) - but goverment incentivized cereals and farmers were assured of income if they produced cereals (not assured if they produced other crops), and market forces played a role. Farmers got free water and free electricity - so they didn't have a need to go for micro-irrigation. Now groundwater is being exploited for agriculture, more sustainble approach needed. It is not right to blame green revolution. Since India is now self-sufficient in and even exporting foodgrains, some say that India can switch to organic farming. But this is not practical - 25 million tonnes of foodgrains needed, but availability of natural manure is so low that less than 5% of the fertilizer need can be met by manure, even though organic manure has been promoted for 25 years. 80% of Indian farmers are small (land) holders - need to double their income and reduce their input costs and link them to the market.
Dr. TVV: Dr. M.S. Swaminathan says India must now go for Evergreen revolution. Dr. Singh: No amount of praise is sufficient for a legend Dr. Swaminathan. He is humble and cares for the younger generation. WOuld come to the field to see if research students working on the field were facing any problem. Has a great ability to articulate.
Dr. TVV: Research students in agriculture in 1960s and 1970s were mostly from rural areas. But that has changed now - how do you handle that? Dr. Singh: Course curricula now includes 6 month of field work so that even urban students get sufficient exposure to rural work experience. Many school students visiting museum now do not know whether potato grows above or below the soil.
Right from the beginning, had the objective of creating the best infrastructure facilities in and more institutions, need to create the best environment ourselves. Believes that charity begins in home. Norman Borlaug said that India succeeded in green revolution because of goverment/political support from the top. India had the best institute like PUSA where he studied. PM Nehru said that everything can wait but not agriculture. Dr. TVV concludes the interview by praising the tireless work of agricultural scientists like M.S. Swaminathan and Dr. Paroda.
23.12.2017:
Prof. Arnab Bhattacharya: Professor of material sciences, TIFR (Mumbai), and currently chairman of TIFR's committee for public outreach and popularization of science. Also an excellent and effective science communicator. Graduated from IIT-Bombay, M.S. and PhD from Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison. Worked at Germany for sometime before returning to India to set up a lab in TIFR to do research on semiconductor materials. Specializes in lasers and semiconductors. Is passionae about science outreach, enjoys talking science and demonstrating scientific experiments, particularly among school and college students. Pioneered "Chai and why", a popular science cafe/campaign in Mumbai that has been running every fortnight without break science since 2009. Homi Bhabha award in science 2010, Shivening (??) Rolls-Royce award for science innovation and leadership in 2012, INSA award (Indira Gandhi award for popularization of science) in 2017.
Works on semiconductors that emit light - semiconductor-based light sources are the most efficience light sources so far. World has moved from candles to gas lamps to electric bulbs to tube lights and now to LED lights. Semiconductor-based lights are the most energy efficient ligh. Silicon is an excellent semiconductor, but does not emit light. But compounds can be created that resemble silicon in crystal structure and thereby act as semiconductors, while also being capable of emitting light. Different compounds emit light of different colours. Gallium-arsinide, Gallium-nitride, aluminium-nitride, indium-phosphide etc. Why is this research needed when LED lights are widely available? Existing LED bulbs use gallium-indium-nitride, a material that works excellently. Yet, material scientists are yet to understand fully the phenomenon that makes these materials emit light. Understanding the phenomenon will help develop much, more efficient light-emitting materials. Gallium-indium-nitride had 100 million defects per cm2 and yet it works briliantly. Gallium-arsinide and such however do not work well even with just 10000 defects per cm2. Why the former works excellently despite having high number of defects, i.e. why it is extremely robust, is yet to be understood - researching on this and trying to come up with new materials (e.g. grapheme and similar flat structured materials) and new combinations that are more robust.
Dr. TVV: You have been in this field for a long time, over 3 or 4 decades since graduation, what are your major contributions? Dr. Arnab laughingly replies with "not so old.. just 20-25 years in research" :)
Started with research on semiconductor lasers. First most exciting work was developing very high-power lasers (lasers used in laser printers, barcode scanners are low power) - lasers that were of hair's width (very small area) but packed several watts of power, useful for melting, surgeries etc. During post-doctoral work in Germany, learnt how to make the world's smallest lsers (different from high-power ones) called vertical cavity lasers. Then on developing red lasers. On returning to TIFR, shifted from making devices to studying materials. Set up 1st lab in India to grow gallium-nitride family of materials, exploring whether they can be grown in certain crystal structures; these are areas where there is insufficient understanding. Main focus has been to understand basic physics issues in these materials, nature of electrical polarization fields of light in these materials, can they be grown in some crystal directions where these polarization fields (which aen't good) won't matter much, can they be mixed with other substances like grapheme, can they be grown like layers that can be peeled off and transferred to a plastic substrate - asking many fundamental physics questions.
At present, major thrust worldwide in this field of material devices has been on developing materials that are more energy-efficient (consume less power, be it transistors, LEDs). Another challenge is to make them cheaper to produce. Says his TIFR lab has 10 crore worth of equipment, so setting up a fab will cost hundreds of crores. India should get a centre for semiconductor fab - but requires huge investment. May not be efficient, but easier to make because they are cheaper, practical. He is not working directly on this, but some other researchers are investigating the possibility of making such materials, say plastic, organic materials etc. which will be a much cheaper route. Scientists like him are asking basic questions in material science to make such developments possible; we are not in the manufacturing game, but the basic physics aspect helps the practical aspect.
About chai and why - someone informally talking for 15-20 minutes talks on the big picture of something, followed by 90 minutes of Q and A over a cup of tea. Science in Mumbai is unfortunately a subject that people get scared off, want to get away from it after school, find it unapproachable even if something has the name "science" in its title! So took the initiative to change this public perception. Idea of "Chai and why" was a Eureka moment for him, an idea that arose when he was attending a workshop on science popularization in the UK. Decided to conduct science cafes in India that will be in an informal venue, and it will not have science in its title. Name "Chai and why" was chosen as caling someone for a cup of chai is an informal thing to do.
Noticed that more kids are coming to these sessions. Found that they do not get oppotunities in school to get hands-on experience with science. Organizes sessions in vacation period in Mumbai schools where kids get to perform 2 simple experiments and often audience can also join these experiments. Also took up things like science in kitchen, science in bathroom, science in the beach, science of ice-cream, science of chocolate. Says even parents accompanying kids get excited with these experiments as they haven't done these things themselves. Topics/themes in session on Sunday closest to Diwali would be about light, on Sunday nearest to Holi would be related to colour.
In terms of popularity, nothing to beat black holes and string theory and esoteric things of that sort. Another popular set of themes is interface between science/maths and what is not traditionally associated with science e.g. mathematics and origamy. TVV says people do want to know, but due to the way it is taught in schools or presented in, people are put off. Reply: Curiosity defines us. Science is all about exploring - be it a tiny cell within the body or a start in a distant galaxy, pick up anything to explore. Unfortunately we have reduced science to a bunch of questions to be answered in exams, made worse by splitting it into biology, physics, chemistry, meaning 3 exams! We have taken out the beauty of exploration from science.
It is important that everyone has atleast a small, basic understanding of what science is, needn't be to a complex, indepth level.
Dr. TVV: Interesting to see a leading researcher like you getting involved in science popularization, especially in India. Major research institutes in India do not think of science popularization as an important task. Reply: As scientists who get public funding for research, we owe it to be able to tell the public, not just the journals, what we (scientists) are doing. Public is in fact interested in knowing this.
So it is should at least explain what is our duty to propagate science.
Not understanding the science behind things you use daily, like smartphones that you carry always, and thinking of those as just magic is dangerous! Also, in the absence of such basic understanding/awareness among public, it is impossible to have any informed debate about nuclear reactors, Ganesha drinking milk etc.
Scientists should not complain about very few students wanting to take up research in basic sciences as their future career - scientists must help make science understandable and exciting for kids if they want more students to take up science research. Says he doesn't conduct all sessions of "chai and why", but catalyzes and curates them.
Is mark-scoring (bookmarks?? to score maximum) the best way to study science - no, it the best way to murder any interest! Need to make science interesting. NCERT books are very good, but what is taught in them is not experimented with.
Figure out what interests you, ask questions. Getting the right answer is not as important as asking the right questions. More the questions and the spirit of enquiry will automatically set in. Try and experiment whenever possible.
Dr. TVV: (On engagement between science and public in India) In the recent past, Indians seem to have got discontented and suspicious about science, fears about vaccination for example.
Reply: Somewhere down the line, post-Independence, we have messed up things a bit about the way we communicated science. This has happened due to information deficit model - science experts go with the mindset of "I know something, you (public) don't know something, we know what is good for you, you simply listen". Such one-way communication or "push" is naturally bound to create backlash among people. Unreasonable to expect public to be convinced of safety of nuclear power if science experts have such an attitude. Need to engage public in 2-way communication. And unless people have a basic understanding of science, they won't know that even sands on Kerala's seashores have radioactive materials, that radiactive potassium even is found in foods like banana. So it is important to help develop basic understanding of science among the public. Scientific institutions need to get out of ivory towers and engage with public. Institutions need to change their mindset - not public relation, but public engagement. It is our duty, even as per our constitution to communicate/develop scientific temper.
30.12.2017:
Prof. Ken Ono: Eminent mathematician, professor at Emory University, USA. Vice president of American Mathematical Society. Passionate and award-winning mathematician, number theorist. PhD from University of California, Los Angeles. Followed the footsteps of India's mathematical genius, Srinivasa Ramanujan, and explored his legacy. Expert in integer partitions and modular forms. 160 research papers and monograms in number theory, combinatorics, algebra. In 2014, he and collaborators published a breakthrough result on algebraic number theory that generalized one of Ramanujan's own results. Based on a pair of equations called Rogers-Ramanujan identities, the work making it easy to produce the value of important algebraic values like pi, or golden ratio. Work on mock theta functions ranked second best mathematical work on year 2014 by Discover magazine. Serves on the editorial board of several reputed journals on number theory. Recipient of several awards and fellowships; named National Science Foundation's distinguished scholar in 2005.
Has been following Ramanujan since he (Ken) was in 10th grade, i.e. around 16 years. Grew up in Baltimore. Last thing he wanted to be was a mathematician, even though his father was an eminent mathematician. A letter with a delicate letterhead arrived in 1984 (when Ken was in 10th grade) from Janakiammal (widow of Ramanujan??) to his father, thanking him for being one of the 85 mathematicians from around the world who contributed to establishing a bust for a mathematical hero, Ramanujan. That was a turning point - Ken fetched and handed over that letter that to his father, and a few hours later, his father tells Ken how Ramanujan's work and legacy has powered the career of many eminent mathematicians. This inspired Ken, even though till that time Ken was rebelling against expectation to study and score high. Hearing the story of Ramanujan, a 2-time college dropout from a poor family who proved to be a mathematical genius was inspirational. Next heard about Ramanujan in 1987, during Ramanujan's birth centenary, in Univ. of Chicago - a BBC documentary on Ramanujan. Next inspiration from Ramanujan was through the book "The man who knew infinity" which he read in 1991. As a student he needed a role model and Ramanujan proved to be his role model. Lucky to have got the opportunity to read 3 original notebooks of Ramanujan, a special, spiritual experience! Ramanujan's notebooks are one of the few that he reads regularly every year, everytime he reads it, it gives him a new idea, inspiration. From number squares to complex, analytic number theories, all in Ramanujan's notebooks. 3rd largely empty, 2nd is an expanded version of the 1st notebook. Shocking progression from seemingly simple to very complex theories; not too many pages, but very valuable. Endless list of world's mathematicians have been inspired. Proof of Fermat's last theorem couldn't have happened without Ramanujan's works. Ramanujan's works are being studied even today. 3-4 times over last 4 years, important discoveries relating to Ramanujan's works in his last notebook - discoveries relating to mock theta functions, umbro moonshine, distribution of black holes, relevant to mathematicians and physicists alike. "Moonshine" means speaking nonsense - oen famous use of the term was Rutherford who thought that there would be absolutely no use to splitting atoms. Group theory and theory of modular forms come together in an unexpected way in 1970s - this led to a new field, termed moonshine. Mathematicians, for over a long time, thought that groups can be broken down only so far leading upto "simple" groups, no further. Analogy of periodic table in chemistry - it is unclear when and where periodic table will end. Unlike in chemistry though, mathematicians felt that simple groups will be finite, definitive (no missing groups) and all other groups will be derivable from those. This was finally confirmed in 1980s - classification of finite subgroups. One of these subgroups is monstrous in size, and cannot be computed easily even with highest computing power. But a shortcut, detour to computing this subgroup was found by a mathematician (Borchard's?) (got Field medal in 1998 for this), based on modular forms. We now know that Ramanujan's functions, like those modular forms, also have a moonshine. This is being discussed and researched in the context of quantum black holes, string theory etc. Holds promise to solving the mysteries behind gravitation, a fundamental theory that is still not completely understood.
That he is working on some areas that extend Ramanujan's work makes him feel excited and fascinated. His upbringing has been very much unlike Indian culture; though a Japanese in some sense, he is an American by culture and upbringing. Nothing like Indian culture and feels excited, fascinated by Indian culture. Everytime he comes to India, he learns something new about India. Has been attending SASTRA university's conference on Ramanujan's work and visiting India almost every other year; it awards SASTRA Ramanujan award.
That mathematics originated in Greece is a Western thinking. Not true that mathematics and science was literally born only in the West - all ancient cultures have played an important part. It is difficult to uncover fully Brahmagupta's discoveries - his contributions to number theory are undeniable, and concept of zero is a major one tha is inscribed even in Hindu temples. India has more than a fair share of contribution to mathematics. History will correct itself and cover the gaps over time.
Says Ramanujan's ideas powered generations of theoretical mathematicians and theoretical physicists. Why does Ramanujan matter to people who are not mathematicians or physicists? Even if you are using a cellphone, Ramanujan matters. People make the mistake of thinking that cellphones and computers or internet work better only because of contributions from engineering. Miniaturizations and device constructions alone aren't behind improvements. A good idea can turn out to be very important - even if it is wrong or slow due to using inefficient ways of calculating. A research area called graph signal processing finds applications in internet and cellphones - on how to quickly correct or minimize errors in data transmission. Only a few years ago, P.P.Vaidyanathan found how Ramanujan's work (called Ramanujan's sums) is greatly increases the speed of some algorithms used in graph signal processing. Won Kirchoff award for this.
Values of fundamental research which is no necessarily tied to a goal in mind are often the best investment. Wrong to think that only applied research is useful. Ramanujan would have not imagined that his works would find so many practical applications. Ken says Hardy and Ramanujan would have probably laughed if one went back in time and told them how their works found use in diverse ways. Hardy is well known for saying he wanted his mathematics to be utterly useless - didn't want his choice of problems to be spoiled or poisoned by the need to solve a concrete practical problem!
On math phobia. There are somethings to be afraid of - e.g. on seeing a cobra. But no point in being afraid of maths or someone good at maths. Most people's last experience with maths, especially if they haven't earned a degree in maths, science or engineering, would have been in school - their image of maths involves tests and problems sets. Nobody likes that. Nobody will enjoy reading poetry or literature if it is about remembering rules of grammar.
Advice to students and teachers is to recognize that maths can be as beautiful as arts or music. Keep in mind that the world is measured by stuff of numbers and maths. Don't be afraid of maths; just appreciate that there are mathematicians who actually work on maths as if it were art. No need to be afraid of maths - just appreciate the fact that some mathematicians work on maths like art.
Ramanujan's works make world a better place. As a 16 year old, Ken was looking for a direction, and only had mindless pursuit of good grades. Ramanujan's creativity changed that mindset and inspired him. Ramanujan's life proves that geniuses can be found even in the most humbling place. Schools, people should try to find and nurture their unique capacities. You don't have to be a mathematician to be important.
